Curse

EtrnalXellotath · Aug 04, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Maybe Im missing something... but where is all of this information coming from? (Not the article, but the allegations about NCSoft and Anet..) Im not dissagreeing with you, but Im confused as to why they would make the Korean's pay for GW, when the Americals and Euro's dont?
Maybe Im ignorant...
Prove me wrong.

Arcador · Aug 04, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

You know - there is a phrase "Things are not black and white".

There are thinkgs that look strange to some poeple, but are completely normal for others. Here is the simplest example - 90% of the americans don't know that Europeans use swiming trunks and do not wear bra (for the female) on the beach, so they look like "WTF???" when they see some.

So my points is that there may be some point about that fee that we don't understand. I know it looks "unfair" - imagine someone is beating another one on the street - your first reaction might be "Hey wtf you are doing and defend the beaten guy (which might be a good choise) but the things may not be as they seems and while helping the "beaten guy" you might actually do not help.

Sorry for the essay - I guess there will be more info about this thing, but untill then do not express too hastily.

Gedscho · Aug 04, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

i dont do such things, because i am a coward, and i am dumb.
but i guess everyone with an iq above 100 could raise such a company in a SAFE way.

there is only one problem:
"paying them cents for the dollar"

even if 58cents AN HOUR (or something like that) MIGHT be much in the country where the sweatshop is located, but after all is just not fair.

Its stealing from the poor. and dont even try to talk this away. those companies steal from people that have nothing. it is paradox, because they steal by giving to them, but nonetheless its THEFT IN THE WORST WAY.

DISGUSTING.

(oh and please dont come whining about a "ruined IG economy" for this doesnt matter, to people that get paid 50cents an hour.´)

Arcador · Aug 04, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Well this theme is a whole different thing. There is a movie called "The corporations" out there and some thinks in it are quite true.

The phrase "The less you know/seen/have - the happy you are" works in full speed as the time progress.

TheTim · Aug 04, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I never realized how big of a industry it was.

Man.... thats sad.

The buyers with no life or ambition to earn something for themselves. And the sellers who exploit it so much that it ends up ruining the economy for everyone else.

Phades · Aug 05, 2005, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuon

You should ask yourself why people feel inclined to spend their hard earned cash to avoid playing a game. To avoid "having fun".

Don't blame consumers for design flaws.

By design or not, it is the lack of pride or a sense of fair play that really brings this about. That lies totally on the shoulders of the "consumers" and has nothing to do with the design.

There are many things you can do, but that never means that you should do them.

thewayofway · Aug 05, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTim

I never realized how big of a industry it was.

Man.... thats sad.

The buyers with no life or ambition to earn something for themselves. And the sellers who exploit it so much that it ends up ruining the economy for everyone else.

What confuses me greatly is that people are repeatedly railing against the buyers of gold... saying they have no life or ambition and that it renders the game pointless. Well, maybe they have the ambition to take their "Godly" sword of destruction, Fissure armor, and all that to battle and kill some stuff. It seems everybody jumps on the bandwagon with this... argument did you call it?

I loathe the insult of "You have no life." Some things seem better to do for some people and that doesn't mean they have no life. But, in a counter, wouldn't the ones buying gold (saving grind time) be the ones having a life? Where they take the two minute shortcut while you spend two hours?

I'd like people to step down from their preaching stands... telling everybody what is wrong and right. I'm certain many of you would be affronted if some anonymous person came up to you and started telling you that something was wrong, no exceptions. I've seen things written like gold buyers need to reevaluate their lives, spending real money on virtual money is foolish. Many want to take the easy route and I can't blame them.

So, in conclusion, I'd like to say that the community needs to drop the condescending attitude towards the gold buyers. It solves nothing in the end and only brews bad blood over an issue that should not be as controversial as it is.

Granamyr · Aug 05, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

So who are the bad guys? Buyers? Sellers? My guess is: both

My guess is neither. There is nothing morally "bad" about capitalism. It looks like everyone wins in this situation and the only harm is to a virtual economy. An economy that has never been preserved in the history of MMO games.

I would like to see the attempt at a money-less economy though. Eventually I think it would evolve into the barter system though and people would collect highly valuable, compact items and use them for money (read Stones of Jordan).

It's hard to combat the account selling though so if you can't beat em, join em. Game companies should sell fully evolved character versions of their game or allow people to pay real money to upgrade their in-game character to its final status. How many of you would have paid 5-10 extra dollars to have all of your skills unlocked?

I'm not going to argue the right or wrong of it or whether it's fair but if the game company won't sell what the public is demanding then someone else will. This isn't a novel concept either. Game companies need to wake up!

Bezerker · Aug 05, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Sick people that do it, sicker people that buy it.

Xonic · Aug 05, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I truely belive the sellers are not to be blamed. those buyers have 100% responsibility on this issue.

if there is no demend, there won't be any sellers. sellers are only responding to demends.

at the end, it's also the buyer who ruins the game for themselves. Yesterday they bought 100k gold from eBay, all of the sudden today they find out they need 200k gold to buy anything in game. Why? farmers/bots.

it's my lunch time now so I have to make it breify. but I hope the connection is clear enough without me wasting my keyboard's durability and internet bandwith to explain.

and then we see the complains and whines we see on this forum.

Granamyr · Aug 05, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

That's fine to blame the buyers but "demand" goes hand-in-hand with the desirability of the game. Show me a game where there is no demand for in-game items/gold and I'll show you a game that isn't being played.

BurningPants · Aug 05, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedscho

i dont do such things, because i am a coward, and i am dumb.
but i guess everyone with an iq above 100 could raise such a company in a SAFE way.

there is only one problem:
"paying them cents for the dollar"

even if 58cents AN HOUR (or something like that) MIGHT be much in the country where the sweatshop is located, but after all is just not fair.

Its stealing from the poor. and dont even try to talk this away. those companies steal from people that have nothing. it is paradox, because they steal by giving to them, but nonetheless its THEFT IN THE WORST WAY.

DISGUSTING.

(oh and please dont come whining about a "ruined IG economy" for this doesnt matter, to people that get paid 50cents an hour.´)

Thank you...everyone is so taken with the real money for virtual money debate that they forgot about the information in the actual article. I was waiting for someone to post this.

Sure wouldn't anyone like to be getting payed to play? That is unless you have do not another source of income. The people at the top are making too much off of the virtual money market while the "sweatshop" gamers are getting, as mentioned above, 58 cents on the dollar.

You may say "these people do not have to stay at their jobs, they are free to quit", and "the conditions are not so bad, the article mentioned that some people liked their jobs".

Excessive gaming may be fun for you, but not everyone likes it. But thats opinion, right? Half of you don't have a job (not your fault you probably are on summer break or something) so here's what you do. Go and get a job which pays you 58 cents an hour to do this work. Stare at the bots all day and ensure everything is running smoothly, how fun. Once you realize how you are being ripped off by the people above you and how boring your job really is, you'll probably quit to find another, higher paying job. No problem right? Unless of course you have no other choice like many of the people in these sweatshops who need to support their families and not just themselves until they have to go back to school.

EDIT: "I'm supporting them by buying the gold from eBay etc...". You want to support them? Go over there and start a business where you can hire these people and pay them a decent salary. Start buying from companies who support the crops these people grow or the items these people make. That way my little rant doesn't seem communist.

Xonic · Aug 05, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

those desire should be fullfilled by getting the items/money in game, or by trading in game, not by bidding on eBay.

DrSLUGFly · Aug 05, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

wow...

This reshuffles my thoughts on the ebay for gold industry... need time to digest this craziness...

Aernok · Aug 05, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan montegarde

Who's fault is this? Let's think...Oh, Anet! I'd never buy gold for money, but if it was as easy to earn 100,000 gold in the game as it is to earn $9 in real life, it would upset the whole ebay market.

Sounds reasonable. But if it becomes where you get 100k in an hour then the economy shifts to one that values only rare weapons. Diablo 2 SoJ's are a good example. So, if it shifts over to an economy based on weapons, the farmers still win because they can sell the weapons, and since they're harder to find, they can sell them at much higher prices than gold.

Xonic · Aug 05, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aernok

Sounds reasonable. But if it becomes where you get 100k in an hour then the economy shifts to one that values only rare weapons. Diablo 2 SoJ's are a good example. So, if it shifts over to an economy based on weapons, the farmers still win because they can sell the weapons, and since they're harder to find, they can sell them at much higher prices than gold.

and then the bots/farmers start selling 10000k gold for $9... haa...

stoned bob · Aug 05, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

58cent an hour, what do u think the people earn that make ure shoes clothes hardware etc
wake up, I dont like it either but what are u gonna do about it, thats right live on, or all u all gonna give up ure jobs/life to fight for good salary/workconditions around the whole world, and prob make all stuff thats bought in the western world alot more expensive

Ninna · Aug 06, 2005, 03:22 AM // 03:22

article is publicly available at CGW

Wage Slaves:
From sweatshops to stateside corporations, some people are profiting off of MMO gold.
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3141815&did=1

Ashley Twig · Aug 06, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

My guess is neither. There is nothing morally "bad" about capitalism.

It fuels greed, which, if I got the movie se7en correctly, is one of the major sins.

But "moral values" can be interpreted as you please. I've been called "immoral" for less significant reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

How many of you would have paid 5-10 extra dollars to have all of your skills unlocked?

How many people buy themselves Dr.-titles that have been ghostwritten by someone smarter, only to pretend that they're something they're not?

Krank · Aug 06, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Just wow i ...

wow..